WORKING PCN TICKET LETTER

[Shambles]

Hi Wolfie,

Sending a goodwill payment sounds like a good idea, for a PCN. Would it be worth trying this approach with a speeding fine? The £60 is easy to produce, but without filling in the proper form/contract how can the "3 points" be acknowledged?

Shambles

[Wolfie]

Hi Wolfie,

Sending a goodwill payment sounds like a good idea, for a PCN. Would it be worth trying this approach with a speeding fine? The £60 is easy to produce, but without filling in the proper form/contract how can the "3 points" be acknowledged?

Shambles

Hi Shambles,

I tend to avoid filling out forms where ever possible, forms are usually designed to contract you in especially when they have reams of size 3 fonts on the reverse, always avoid forms !! Simply use their reference number, and make it clear what they are agreeing to...ie.
That you accept no liability for the alledged offence and that you intend to appeal, instruct them to keep the file open until you are satisfied with the outcome. Keep all communications clear and concise, grind 'em down. it is better to always hold back a little and try to predict their response...If you are absolutely confident that you are right and have received what appears to be a final response from them and have gone through the arbitration process, Serve them with a seven day notice of legal proceedings.

I escaped a speeding fine last year, they said that I was doing 54mph in a 40 limit but the speed camera was located between a 40 and 50 limit, I was accelerating up to the next speed limit and my speedometer was not calibrated to the speed camera, my speedometer showed 50mph, I was asking them for calibration records, photographic evidence, exact OS location of the camera, they gave up.


With my latest parking fine defence they returned my cheque within 14 days as the restriction signs were more than 30m apart and the road markings were faded.

Another one in a car park I asked them where the terms and conditions were displayed, they said that they were printed on the back of the ticket, I told them that customers should be able to view the terms prior to purchase if they are on the ticket the purchase is already made, no contract could be understood where not provided prior to purchase or payment, they later put the terms and conditions on the tariff board. I got a refund authorised by thier legal department.

Thank you,

Wolfie

[cookiemonster]

anyone tried paying them but excepting no liability letter?

[jimzwaking]

Hi Wolfie,

Sending a goodwill payment sounds like a good idea, for a PCN. Would it be worth trying this approach with a speeding fine? The £60 is easy to produce, but without filling in the proper form/contract how can the "3 points" be acknowledged?

Shambles

Hi Shambles,

I tend to avoid filling out forms where ever possible, forms are usually designed to contract you in especially when they have reams of size 3 fonts on the reverse, always avoid forms !! Simply use their reference number, and make it clear what they are agreeing to...ie.
That you accept no liability for the alledged offence and that you intend to appeal, instruct them to keep the file open until you are satisfied with the outcome. Keep all communications clear and concise, grind 'em down. it is better to always hold back a little and try to predict their response...If you are absolutely confident that you are right and have received what appears to be a final response from them and have gone through the arbitration process, Serve them with a seven day notice of legal proceedings.

I escaped a speeding fine last year, they said that I was doing 54mph in a 40 limit but the speed camera was located between a 40 and 50 limit, I was accelerating up to the next speed limit and my speedometer was not calibrated to the speed camera, my speedometer showed 50mph, I was asking them for calibration records, photographic evidence, exact OS location of the camera, they gave up.


With my latest parking fine defence they returned my cheque within 14 days as the restriction signs were more than 30m apart and the road markings were faded.

Another one in a car park I asked them where the terms and conditions were displayed, they said that they were printed on the back of the ticket, I told them that customers should be able to view the terms prior to purchase if they are on the ticket the purchase is already made, no contract could be understood where not provided prior to purchase or payment, they later put the terms and conditions on the tariff board. I got a refund authorised by thier legal department.

Thank you,

Wolfie

I'm going to give this a go, so anyone in the East Devon District Council catchment area this may help. I got caught out in Sidmouth, a town notorious for the amount of restrictive parking and draconian enforcement. Despite being down a backstreet on a Sunday, out of town and not blocking the highway, in a permitted area but back wheel on single yellow line I was still busted. Put a downer on the day after the youth team I assist in coaching won their second match in a row Takes a while to calm down but happy I can trawl this site for some excellent advice - hopefully I can input a positive approach and outcome in recompence. I wil say that I escaped a PCN in Taunton as I had no knowledge of the fine - it had been ripped off my car. All I had to do was give a statutary legislation at my Local Magistrates Court PLC, and no more action was taken.
Another matter I intend to research is that I'm sure parking control ie. lines and signs are to ensure free passage and reduce congestion - not to force people into overpriced authority owned car parks. Those of you have that have visited Sidmouth will confirm that every street is yellow-lined.

peace, Jim

[jimzwaking]

Well, this is the letter I'm sending in line with Wolfie's advice. I'll post up future correspondance from EDDC.
PCN Number: ************, Served *********

Enclosed is a cheque for £35 as an ex-gratia payment in relation to the above PCN issued on the above date by Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) 2015. I do not accept any liability as I intend to contest this ‘penalty’.
I require proof that the ‘penalty’ was issued lawfully, and in the full terms of the legislation stated by the Traffic management Act 2004 s.78. I would like a statement from the CEO involved that the PCN was physically attached to the automobile in question. I also require a lawful reason for the issuing of the PCN in relation to the Traffic Management Act s.78 which (in accordance with the Department of Transport policy) was introduced to tackle congestion and disruption of the road network, or the summary of Dft TMA 2004: Current position, summary and faqs “The Traffic Management Act aims to tackle urban and inter-urban congestion by concentrating on areas where the Government believes that legislation can reduce disruption on our roads.” – not a cynical act of creating wealth by local authorities by using such loose reasons as Parked in a restricted area during prescribed hours . The automobile ******* was not causing any disruption, or causing congestion. This could be said of the numerous cars parked opposite the theatre that were seemingly ignored? Please keep the file open until this matter reaches a satisfactory outcome.
Apart from this matter, we had an enjoyable time in Sidmouth where we were well hosted by Sidmouth RFC. I must remark that it is one of the nicest grounds we have played on, though provision for parking would be nice.



Regards,

* *******

If I have made any glaring errors in writing, please throw in your comments for my future letters to THEM

[Yiannis]

Hi everyone - I've been following this topic with interest and have cobbled together a letter of my own thanks to the wisdom and generosity of this forum (and others).

It's a bit of a sledgehammer for a nut, but i) I'm hoping to get back fines paid without conditions and ii) I have a few of these to do so want a good working template.

Feel free to make comment and highlight any additions and omissions,
John


John Sxxxxxxx
XXXXXXXXXXX
KXXXXXX
London XXXXXXX
Brent Parking Services

Notice of Claim for Full Refund

9/11/2011

Dear Sirs

RE: [PCN: REG: ]


Please read the following notice thoroughly and carefully before responding. I am claiming a full refund in 14 days from the date of this letter for the charge of £55 made in regard to the Penalty Charge Notice above. Failure to respond to this claim and to do so completely and in good faith within 14 (fourteen) days from the date of this letter and by recorded delivery will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties agree in full to the points made herein and wholeheartedly accept this claim.

For this reason it is important that you consider and respond to the offer in substance. The 'nearest official form' will not suffice, and consequently is likely to be ignored by myself without any dishonour on my part.

On I received a PCN for allegedly parking in contravention of some statute. I made representations against this claim, writing that there were no sign posts for at least 400m each side informing me of any special parking regulations, and that unless clearly signed, the presumption is that single yellow lines can be parked on after 6.30pm unless otherwise notified. The alleged parking infringement took place at 8.28pm

Your claim was that according to a Road Traffic Act, all that is required by law is for a sign to be present at the commencement of a Controlled Parking Zone. There is quite a bit more to that regulation that is relevant to this case that you did not inform me of. I am presently studying the regulations further and reserve the right to recourse on this point at a later date if necessary.

This issue aside, my claim for refund is because as executor, beneficiary and appointed administrator for and of the legal person JOHN XXXXXXX I know of no formal contract with you and therefore am not governed by the statute in question. Also, that you did with dishonour deceive me to presume that there was indeed such a contract, under threat of increasing the fine in the first instance. This infers that your claim was true and needed no further proof.

Further to this deception, I am also formally contesting the validity of the PCN as I also believe that no individual company has the right to demand money from me for an alleged offence which has not been proven in a Court of Law. As stated in section 12 of the Bill of Rights Act 1689 enacted and formally entered into Statute following the Declaration of Rights 1689:
‘That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void’

I now draw your professional attention to the following points wherein "DVLA" should be taken to read "the DVLA or any associated Agency".

It is my understanding that when a thing becomes registered with a body, the body it is registered to, or with, takes title ownership of said thing.  (see Blacks Law dictionary)

It is my understanding that in this case the thing in question is a device for use to aid roaming commonly called a “vehicle” by the DVLA. 

It is my understanding that a person who registers a vehicle gives up the right to own the vehicle in exchange for equitable title, i.e. the right, to keep or look after or store or use what is now in point of fact the property of DVLA.  (If this is not so, and the DVLA has stated this in the past, then please answer the question; “Who is the legal owner?” in your reply.) If you cannot answer the question; ”Who is the legal owner of the car in question”, then please pass this Notice to someone who can answer this question, as you are probably not qualified to answer to this Notice.

It is my understanding that in doing so the keeper must abide by the rules of the Trust, society or corporation or body to which the vehicle is registered. 

Consequently it is my understanding that subsequent keepers are not owners as stated in section C4c of the Registration Certificate which states: “The registered keeper is not necessarily the legal owner”. 

It is my understanding that this vital information is not fully and plainly disclosed on the contract known as the V5 Registration Certificate. For a contract to be valid it must contain FULL disclosure. It follows that since this vital information is not shown clearly on the contract it must be deemed that the contract is null and void. 

In an effort to bring a speedy conclusion to this case and avoid any more undue work for both parties, I will abandon my claim if the following are proven.

Upon proof of claim that there was a contract between the legal person (fiction) JOHN XXXXXX and BRENT COUNCIL
Upon proof of claim that BRENT COUNCIL is not a corporation and legal fiction and does not require contracts in order to claim authority or control over other parties.
Upon proof of claim that contracts do not require mutual consent.
Upon proof of claim that you have signed consent to corporation’s right to bind me with statutes.
Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.
Upon proof of claim that section 2; clause 12 of the Bill of Rights 1689 does not state 'That all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons before conviction are illegal and void'.
Upon proof of claim that all Acts are not statutes restricted in scope and applicability by the Constitution and/or Bill of Rights.
Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within this alleged transgression state apply to me within that named society.
Upon proof of claim that the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 is not a statute and has
the force of law without the consent of the governed.
Upon proof of claim that the Road Traffic Offenders Act 1988 applies to a man and not a person only.
Upon proof of claim that the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 is not a statute and has the force of law without the consent of the governed.
Upon proof of claim that the Road Traffic Regulations Act 1984 applies to a man and not a person only.
Upon proof of claim that the United Kingdom is not a common law jurisdiction.
Upon proof of claim that the common law right to travel in one's own private conveyance does not exist in the United Kingdom.

Lastly, it is a grievance to me to spend considerable time and resources dealing with malicious, unfounded claims against my legal person and claim my right to be able to use my own time as I choose. Therefore, I attach my fee schedule for dealing with unfounded and unproven claims should any of the claims be not proven.

Fee Schedule 

I claim my fee schedule in regard to my Natural Born Lawful Right to freely travel on Her Majesty’s roads and highways and as my terms and conditions. 

£450 (four hundred and fifty) GB Pounds per hour, per individual reasonably involved, for: Any work caused to me or transgressions, by police officers, government principles or their agents, or participants in the system of justice or should I be stopped by a uniformed or non uniformed officer doing so without reasonable cause or prevented in going about my lawful peaceful right to roam, questioned, interrogated or in any way detained, harassed or otherwise regulated.

£5,000 (five thousand) GB Pounds per hour, per individual reasonably involved: Should I be handcuffed, arrested, transported, incarcerated, or subjected to any adjudication process without my express written and notarized consent. 

£20,000 (twenty thousand) GB Pounds (in addition to any compensation awarded), per individual reasonably involved: Should violence be used against either My Self or those under my care and protection, or damage or loss to my privately owned or borrowed or hired private conveyance. 

I claim the right to convene a proper court de jure in order to address any potential criminal actions of any police officers, government officials, principals or agents, or participants in the system of justice who, having been served notice of this claim fail to dispute or discuss or make lawful counterclaim and then interfere by act or omission with the lawful exercise of property claimed and established rights and freedoms. 

I claim the right to deal with any counterclaims or disputes publicly and in open forum using discussion and negotiation and to capture both video and audio evidence of said discussion and negotiation for whatever lawful purpose I see fit. 

Affected parties wishing to dispute the claims made herein or make their own counterclaims must respond appropriately within 14 (fourteen) working days of the date of this notice. Responses are required to be made under oath or attestation upon full commercial liability and penalty of perjury and received via registered mail to:

John XXXXXXX, 
XXXXXXXX
XXXXXXX
LONDON [XXXXXXX]


Failure to record an appropriate dispute against the claims made herein will mean that you agree with my understanding and claims and will result in automatic default judgment and permanent and irrevocable estoppels by acquiescence barring any claims or the bringing of charges by you or any interested 3rd parties under any statute against My Self for exercising my lawful and properly established Natural Born Rights and Freedoms.

I give notice that failure to record an appropriate dispute AND not including a full refund will result in legal action where there may be additional costs.

Replying with quotes of statutes, or not under oath or attestation upon full commercial liability and penalty of perjury, will hereby be taken as consent on your part that you agree with the points, claims and facts of this Notice and that you are without any lawful rebut of this Notice, please be guided accordingly.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity, 

SIGNED

Sui Juris
John XXXXXXX,

WITHOUT PREJUDICE, i.e. all Natural Inalienable Rights Reserved 
Please address all future correspondence in the matter to John XXXXXX.

[Freedomwing]

Hi, I'd appreciate a bit of advice as I'm new to making a stand. I pretty much copied the letter template proposed by jimzwaking in this forum thread on 10th october (obviously changing the relevent details).

I gave them a cheque with the letter stating that it was an ex-gratia payment and that I did not accept liability, just as jimzwaking proposed. My local council have actually cashed the cheque without even replying to the letter. I'm wondering what my next move should be, a prosecution maybe, or another letter demanding compensation? However I'm feeling all this talk and posturing is useless without the ability to follow it through with a prosecution.

So my question is: how do I begin a prosecution as I'm fairly confident that this constitutes theft. The cheque was written out to Stafford Borough Council, so I assume that only Stafford Borough Council could cash that cheque, and therefore it would be Stafford Borough Council who I should prosecute. Is it a matter for the police? I'm really quite ignorant of my next move and any advice given will be appreciated.

Thanks in advance. Thanks also to jimzwaking who's template i used.

[Noisytone]

Hi all ,

Im a newbie here , I posted a question in the introduction section and i guess it was in the wrong place LOL . I got a PCN for a bus lane violation on 11 Jan 2012 .

With regard to the camera evidence , I can see why you would want to request all the calibration information for speed related offences but seeing as in my case its just a traffic spy cam and just shows your position on the road i wonder if theres going to be problems . I sent the PCN back the same day as no contract return to sender and heard nothing so far .

Anybody got any ideas ??? id appreciate some input on this please .

Many thanks

[tasha]

sorry new member and still learning...may be a silly question but do you send the parking ticket/fine back with the response letter? I got a parking fine and will be trying this for the first time using this templete, all help appreciated!

thank you!

[thx1138]

sorry new member and still learning...may be a silly question but do you send the parking ticket/fine back with the response letter? I got a parking fine and will be trying this for the first time using this templete, all help appreciated!

thank you!

Have a look here;

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/index.php