Parking fine for parking in a "free to park" space!

[Dubber Dan]

I got a Penalty Charge Notice from Wiltshire Council on Thurs for parking a in a "free" space but forgetting to get a free ticket to show when I arrived. Being new to all this I'm not sure where to go with this, but it seems one of the easier things to deal with from the little reading I've done so far.

What's the best course of action and anyone gone through this with Wiltshire Council before?

ps. I love the wording on the front saying "50% discount if paid within 14 days" - wow that's a bargain, I'll pay straight away!

[Dubber Dan]

Reading around the place I've drafted the following letter:


=============================================================================================
Wiltshire Council WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Parking Services
PO Box 3106
Chippenham
Wiltshire
SN15 9BE
25th May 2009

Re: PENALTY CHARGE NOTICE xxxxxxxxxx - Issued xx/05/09
Notice of Discharge of Outstanding Penalty Notice and Request for Clarification.

To [address]
You have apparently made allegations of criminal conduct against me.
You have apparently made demands upon me.
I do not understand those apparent demands and therefore cannot lawfully fulfil them.
I seek clarification of your document so that I may act according to the law and maintain my entire body of God given Natural Rights, specifically, I request clarification of all of the following:
1. The Penalty Charge Notice (PCN) states:
“Civil Enforcement Officer (CEO) WN012 who had reason to believe that the following contravention had occurred and that a penalty charge is now payable”
Can you please provide me with full details of the evidence you hold that a contravention did indeed occur?
2. The PCN also states:
“Code: 83”
Can you please provide me with an explanation of what Code 83 means?

I conditionally accept your offer to agree that I owe £50.00 upon proof of claim of all of the following:
1. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice.
2. Upon proof of claim that I am a member of the society whose statutes and subsisting regulations you are enforcing.
3. Upon proof of claim that there is a nameable society that I belong to and that the laws covered within this alleged transgression state that they apply to me within that named society

Failure to accept this offer to clarify and to do so completely and in good faith within 7 days will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties abandon all demands upon me.

Sincerely and without ill will, vexation or frivolity
=============================================================================================

I've taken the sample letter here as the basis for it, but as the PCN was on the windscreen and not addressed to my Person, not all of it felt the right tact to start off with. So what I've ended up with is a conditional notice of acceptance along with questions asking for clarification and evidence of wording on the PCN itself, followed by some legalese challenges.

Does that seem a good starting point?

[consumerpada]

Brilliant place to start with all this mate...

[Dubber Dan]

Cheers for the comment. One more question before I send of the letter tomorrow;

What's the best way to deal with signing letters, particularly as this was left on my windscreen and not issued to my Person? Is it best to print my name but without all the capitals, sign it and then also add a line to say something along the lines of "Freeman of flesh and blood"?

[wally]

Hi Dubber
I'm new to this too, so bear that in mind...... I'm probably too late to affect your Notice - you posted it today probably.
Anyway, I think your Notice looks fine.
If you do decide to sign your Notice to them, then mabe you want to sign as agent for the ALL CAPS name
e.g. "John Smith: agent for JOHN SMITH".......... or something similar. It's just to seperate you from the fiction PERSON, JOHN SMITH.

You probably want to sign on the right side of the paper (apparently creditors sign on the right and debtors sign on the left side). Once you look this up and convince yourself this is relevant, mabe you will get into the habit of doing it in future.

Your condition number "1. Upon proof of claim that the charge was the result of a lawful investigation unmarred by prejudice."

Not sure what you mean here........... I think you may mean that it is unlawful for someone to be fined or imprisoned before the judgement of a magistrate or judge. In the Bill of Rights 1612 or something. I still haven't got around to reading the Bill of Rights yet. Can't even remember the correct date for it. (You'll find it somewhere referenced on the forum here).

Hopefully that's what you meant. If it wasn't, I think it should have been put into your notice.

Since there is a bit of flawed logic being applied here with this parking fine......... i.e. parking is free but you must display a "free" parking ticket, otherwise you are "awarded" a fine, it seems that this fine is just being used for "obedience training"............. as well as stealing your wealth of course.

I think obedience training is a tactic used, which is underestimated by many people. In all interactions with government agencies, it may be an idea to think - with a sceptical mind - just why they are saying what they are saying.

Anyway - before I start waffling too much, I'll just wish you the best of luck with it, and hopefully you also have a bit of fun too.
Cheers

[Psonik]

Cheers for the comment. One more question before I send of the letter tomorrow;

What's the best way to deal with signing letters, particularly as this was left on my windscreen and not issued to my Person? Is it best to print my name but without all the capitals, sign it and then also add a line to say something along the lines of "Freeman of flesh and blood"?

was it 'fixed' to your windscreen or under the wiper blade ?

if it wasn't fixed using the adhesive strip it wasn't 'served' correctly and so invalid -

send them a notice quoting their own guidelines governing their CEO's conduct !

[Psonik]

I just signed on behalf of the car - as thats who got the PCN

[Dubber Dan]

The notice was stuck on the screen, so I guess it was served....

In the end, I left out the bottom set of questions from my letter as posted above.

Got a reply today, called a Notice of Rejection of Challenge, which rejected my challenge (not that I actually challenged them but asked for clarification etc) and they have supplied photos showing no ticket, but haven't properly stated the legislation the contravention was as I asked. They have reset the 14 days for the discount (how generous!).

In their letter they referred me to the Off Street Parking Places Order which can be found on their website.

So what's my next step? I'm guessing it's something to do with their Off Street Parking Places Order not being a contract that I have signed up to?

[Dubber Dan]

Anyone got some pointers?

[sleeping.scorpion]

Your letter clearly states:

"Failure to accept this offer to clarify and to do so completely and in good faith within 7 days will be deemed by all parties to mean you and your principal or other parties abandon all demands upon me."

...and they didn't do as per the above so my interpretation is that they have abandoned their claim? Someone with some more insight probably needs to pipe in here.

So are they now in dishonour as they did not accept/acknowledge you offer?