Escape from UK!

[MultiMaddo85]

Another good idea, I like the thinking, like you say similar line to MFP only abroad.

There's definitely benefits, like you say, cheaper land and cost of living, less strict on building regulations. Few problems for me would be the language barrier, distance from and cost of visiting family (if applicable).

Also though, for me the main reason is, and I do try to be optimistic but the reality is, the future is looking bleak, what with the purposely caused economic crash and austerity measures, add the natural or man-made environmental disasters, food shortages (grain and wheat price doubled causing some of the recent anger in the Middle-East and it's only going to get worse) - so basically, as governments have planned for, and as we've already seen in many countries, we're going to see massive civil unrest throughout the world over the next few years, and I'd rather be in my 'own' country, a place where other locals won't resent my presence and where I wont be 1st on the list to be eaten if a famine occurs.

Although, I think we might have to move out of the UK and further south in the next decade anyway - maybe the south of France would be better? Or Slovenia? Slovenia is a nice country, maybe a little mountainous in areas but plenty of water, and I know in France the building regulations are basically 'on your head be it', meaning, build what you like but if it falls down and you're injured or die it's your own fault and obviously you can't sue anyone, plus a lot of them speak English.

[MultiMaddo85]

Oops - posted twice sorry....

[llewop]

language barrier aint such a problem, is easy to learn a new language and if you joined the community there would be lots of time for learning

if there is civil unrest as you predict, i wouldnt like to be in uk trapped in some brick and mortar box in the middle of it all. id rather be in the countryside in the middle of nowehere with protection. gun shops in latvia are easy to find

[MultiMaddo85]

Yeah suppose mate, I guess you can pick up the basics pretty quick, that's what I meant, language for buying, selling or trading goods with Latvian locals.

Yeah definately, when the shit hits the fan you don't want to be in an urban area, the more remote the better, knowing you can purchase guns in Latvia is obviously a positive, at least you can protect yourself whereas in the UK we'd be at the mercy of the forces, criminals and farmers.

A positive for UK, and thus a negative for Latvia or elsewhere, again for me, would be that if and when the shit does hit the fan, and I think it will be sooner rather than later, in the UK I already know the countryside / rural areas, I already know the terrain, water sources and places to hide, I know what the soil and climate is like so I know what will and wont grow - in Latvia or elsewhere, I would need enough time to learn all of that information before anything kicked off, and I'm not sure I'd have enough time.

What about the climate and soil in Latvia mate - isn't Latvia slightly more Northern that most parts of England? Is it much colder? How densely populated is it? i.e. Is there a lot of vacant land? Do most crops grow well in that area?

Sorry for questions, I could look up myself but if you already know and don't mind responding then let me know.

Peace

[llewop]

latvian language is very easy to learn. russian is difficult as everything has a gender.
the older people speak russian and latvian, the younger people speak english and latvian.


if living in an alternative community in latvia, it would be in the middle of nowhere, plenty of time to build defences and storage of food. most rural places have an underground building, half underground, so its cold to store fruits, vegetables and meats.

you ask is it much colder? lol yes, very.... minus 30 in the winter. when i was there, it was already snowing in october.

the soil is fertile. i paid 25 lats - about 30 pounds for someone to plough 2 acres of land with the tractor, turning the earth over. he did 9 hours of work for this. i know he overcharged me and i know i gave him a little extra to what he overcharged me but to me it was worth this money.

there is a lot of vacant land. a lot of rural houses are falling down, it is because the older generation are dying and their children have moved away from the rural areas either into the city or into a new country - they have joined the rat race in the hope of a better life. for this reason, a lot of land and property in the rural areas are sold very cheaply - nobody wants to live there!

most crops grow well. in october, i found strawberrys, apples, potatoes, apricots and a type of latvian style lettuce and cabbage that id never tasted before.

hens lay eggs on a daily basis, though one day when i let my hens out, i did see a falcon or an eagle fly down and fly away with one of the hens.

latvia has a warm climate in the summer with a very cold baltic winter during october to around march. the cold is not a problem since houses have wood burners there and there is plenty of wood in the forests.

i collected enough wood to fill an outbuilding, the measurements of the outbuilding were around 4 metres by 5 metres and near enough 4m in height. the wood i collected was from trees in the forest that had already fallen down or had fallen down because of beavers eating the roots. some trees were dead and 2 friends showed me how to spot dead trees and simply push them over.


defences in latvia if and when the shit does hit the fan - in the middle of nowhere, nobody around... and with a lot of people in an alternative community we will be able to build our defences and make plans.

i stayed in a place called madona which is in eastern latvia close to the russian border. ive never experienced such a place in the middle of nowhere. not even the darkest depths of wales or the scottish highlands is as remote as rural latvia.


no problem answering your questions.... anything else you can think of, just ask. its difficult to search for info on latvia unless you know latvian or russian language, most english websites are made for people with money who want to buy expensive apartments in the city. one time when i was in madona, i spoke with a lady who was a manager of the bus company. she said she had worked there for around 7 years and i was the first british person she had ever seen! most brits are just interested in the city.

[MultiMaddo85]

Cool, some good information there thanks, certainly something worth thinking about....

I'm not a wuss with the cold like, even when I'm at home in winter I tend to just put more clothes on rather than burn gas all day and night, although, obviously I don't like to be so cold I'm shivering.

It's one thing that's making me re-consider how, where and when I join any off-grid community - unless I know that heating & fuel arrangements are in place then I think I'd be quite relectunant to join one now - I think these winters will continue, if not get worse

We're a bit scuppered really as there's not that much land that's remote and not in use anywhere in Europe really, at least not anywhere warm.

The 'elites' are setting up shop in Paraguay aren't they, bit too far for me but I can see why, remote jungle with plenty of water....

[Warlok]

Ok...

My two pence worth...

This sounds like a great idea... sadly though it is just an idea....

To make this work you would need:

People volenteering with skills who can work hard.... seems easy to say "no rules" but if your living in a community of approx 30 people surviving off food grown within 7 months (march-october) for 5 months (october-march) you NEED rules and rotas....

Wood burners sound great... but if its -30 outside - without a rota no one will want to go get the wood for the stove!

LAWS... we barely grasp most of our rules / laws (some of which are corrupt) do we want to move to a country where we don't know the LAWS let alone any fair ones or the language?....

Its all well and good 25 acres being available for less than 10K but how much is the permit etc to build...

I've seen it said "theres plenty of time to build defences" and "guns are readily available"... yes a wood parapet and a shotgun will stave off locals / wild animals... but who's going to stand a 4 hour shift guarding in -30? and if the local law come after you in an apc with ak's will a wood parapet and a few shotguns still seem adequate? or maybe the people in the commune will carry armfulls of bricks and sacks of cement on the 90 min bus ride then the long field walk to fence off 25 acres securly....

Middle of no-where, no power also = no sewage... i assume their are cess pits...

but whats the cost to get a cess pit emptied? whats their equivalent of council tax? - the money to buy the property can be raised but whats the running costs....

Great plan but before it could become more than an idea you would need:
1) An understanding of latvian law, charges and taxes.
2) several people with agricultural skills, teaching skills (as families are talking about this), building skills, electronic skills, stock handling skills (to stock up wood & food alone for 30 people over 5 months and ration it is a hell of a task), medical skills incase of injury, mechanical skills....
3) cash.
4) stock - how much are animals... how much is feed to keep the animals (and don't say we can grow it to grow animal feed and human food for 30 people on 25 acres would be very difficult... 1 bad crop and you'd be doomed).
5) Brewing skills - we'd need to drink!
6) everything else i've forgotten on this list!

If this was properly thought out i must admit its an interesting prospect but at the moment it seems no more that a dream i'm afraid


ohhh and p.s. where do i buy latvian chickens?... could make a killing as all the rest of the chickens in the world usually lay for only 5 out of 7 days not every day

[Warlok]

sorry if that seems negative... haveing re read it it may do... not trying to be negative just honest... I'm all for the dream but unfortunately see the real world

[llewop]

Cool, some good information there thanks, certainly something worth thinking about....

I'm not a wuss with the cold like, even when I'm at home in winter I tend to just put more clothes on rather than burn gas all day and night, although, obviously I don't like to be so cold I'm shivering.

It's one thing that's making me re-consider how, where and when I join any off-grid community - unless I know that heating & fuel arrangements are in place then I think I'd be quite relectunant to join one now - I think these winters will continue, if not get worse

We're a bit scuppered really as there's not that much land that's remote and not in use anywhere in Europe really, at least not anywhere warm.

The 'elites' are setting up shop in Paraguay aren't they, bit too far for me but I can see why, remote jungle with plenty of water....

when i was there the house was warm. all the houses have wood burners in them. i guess i was a kind of naturist there, no clothes in a boiling hot house with loads of snow outside
no problem with heating and fuel because there is lots of wood and forests

[llewop]

Ok...

My two pence worth...

This sounds like a great idea... sadly though it is just an idea....

To make this work you would need:

People volenteering with skills who can work hard.... seems easy to say "no rules" but if your living in a community of approx 30 people surviving off food grown within 7 months (march-october) for 5 months (october-march) you NEED rules and rotas....

but im not in charge of this, its just my idea. i guess the rules or decisions would be made from the people in the community

Wood burners sound great... but if its -30 outside - without a rota no one will want to go get the wood for the stove!

lol maybe... but i used to enjoy going outside in minus 30 to get my wood, its a break from the house, you dont collect the wood from the forest during the winter, in the summer you collect the wood ready for the winter and store the wood near the house

LAWS... we barely grasp most of our rules / laws (some of which are corrupt) do we want to move to a country where we don't know the LAWS let alone any fair ones or the language?....
its european law. but in the middle of nowhere theres no bother with police. i was in rural for nearly 3 months without seeing poilice. i only saw the polcie when i was in the capital city at around 2am i went out of hotel, they ended up driving me around the city!

Its all well and good 25 acres being available for less than 10K but how much is the permit etc to build...
two types, but maximum cost no more than £170

I've seen it said "theres plenty of time to build defences" and "guns are readily available"... yes a wood parapet and a shotgun will stave off locals / wild animals... but who's going to stand a 4 hour shift guarding in -30? and if the local law come after you in an apc with ak's will a wood parapet and a few shotguns still seem adequate? or maybe the people in the commune will carry armfulls of bricks and sacks of cement on the 90 min bus ride then the long field walk to fence off 25 acres securly....

Middle of no-where, no power also = no sewage... i assume their are cess pits...
yes, or a hole in the ground!

but whats the cost to get a cess pit emptied? whats their equivalent of council tax? - the money to buy the property can be raised but whats the running costs....
there is no council tax but around £100 to pay for the land each year, this is to the equivalent of the council and for that that you can request someone come to clean the forest of dead wood and dead trees

Great plan but before it could become more than an idea you would need:
1) An understanding of latvian law, charges and taxes.
ive latvian friends who can help with this, 2 friends even thinking of joining the community, they are in UK now and dont like it here
2) several people with agricultural skills, teaching skills (as families are talking about this), building skills, electronic skills, stock handling skills (to stock up wood & food alone for 30 people over 5 months and ration it is a hell of a task), medical skills incase of injury, mechanical skills....
hopefully the people who join the community will cover these skills
3) cash.
cash is a lot easier in latvia. just think that the average wage in latvia is £100 per month, no benefits. cash goes a long way outside of the city
4) stock - how much are animals... how much is feed to keep the animals (and don't say we can grow it to grow animal feed and human food for 30 people on 25 acres would be very difficult... 1 bad crop and you'd be doomed).
latvian prices: cow £300 sheep £60 hen £1 pig £40
potatoes: £130 for 1 tonne!

5) Brewing skills - we'd need to drink!
nice fruits to be found for wines

6) everything else i've forgotten on this list!

If this was properly thought out i must admit its an interesting prospect but at the moment it seems no more that a dream i'm afraid

deffo not a dream. ive already lived there for 3 months and will go back and live there alone, by myself if necessary! but i have 4 other people who are definately interested in this and will be going there

ohhh and p.s. where do i buy latvian chickens?... could make a killing as all the rest of the chickens in the world usually lay for only 5 out of 7 days not every day
i guess you buy latvian chickens from China. look underneat the chickens and you see a sticker that says made in china!