Vaccines - The True Weapons of Mass Destruction

[jobo]

dear god man it like teaching the retard class at a really bad school

surely even you can grasp the difference between endemic
epidemic
and pandemic

no wonder you have trouble with this, ive just been and explained it to a 7 yo and she got it, i got her to explain it back to me and this is what she said

if a few people have its is endemic

if lots of people have it its an epidemic

if most people have it its a pandemic

not bad for a little girl, not quite right but good enough for you .then shes gone back to watching lazy town

have you got it now ? some of them had it, but that doesn't make it an epidemic

if your doing this on purpose please don;t your loosing all credibility


1. You tell us that Smallpox travelled with the Conquistadors to the New World. BUT

youve got is so far well done

2. You say NONE of the Conquistadors were suffering from Smallpox at the time when they arrived in the New World.

no i didnt, i said there wasnt an epidemic,

3. In fact, you tell us NONE of the Conquistadors was suffering from Smallpox. Not on the voyage and not on their arrival. In fact you tell us some of these Conquistadors had built up a good resistance to Smallpox. And others had less resistance to it. But none, none at all, were actually suffering from it. These are your own words.

no i didnt i saud there wasnt an epidemic

4. You agree there was NO epidemic of Smallpox amongst the Conquistadors on their arrival in the New World.

jez third time lucky, have you tried out for eggheads ?


5. ''Infected Conquistadors passed the diseases to the natives''.Jobo, if you agree that none of the Conquistadors was suffering from Smallpox

god he;s lost it again

A disease cannot be passed by people who are not suffering from it themselves, can it ?

i didnt say that, but yes lots of diseases can be passed with out the person passing them having contracted it themselves

6. You would support (you say) mandatory vaccination for 'Swine Flu' although
i didnt say that either

[wat tyler]

OK Jobo,


1. You say Smallpox travelled with the Conquistadors to the New World.

Question - Do you have any evidence of this ?

2. You say that some of the Conquistadors already had Smallpox at the time when they arrived in the New World.

Question - So, according to you, Smallpox was already affecting some of the Conquistadors at the time of their arrival. Jobo, we are talking here of a few hundred men. Some of whom, you say, were already suffering from Smallpox as they sailed across the sea to the New World. But the number of Conquistadors was not large enough to call it an epidemic. My question is this -

You wrote earlier on this thread of -

'A significant number of the Conquistadors did die of it. Contracted usually as a result of raping the native women'.

That means the Conquistadors contracted it usually from women already living in the New World, right ?

But now you say some of the Conquistadors were already suffering from Smallpox on the ships before they arrived in the New World. It seems to me that you are confusing yourself. You also said that those with smallpox on ships were thrown overboard. So how can you agrue both of these things at the same time ? There is NO evidence the Conquistadors arrived in the New World with Smallpox, is there ? It's just your idea.

So, you want us to believe some of the Conquistadors brought it to the New World. That there was no epidemic at the time although they were travelling together on the same ships. And you believe other Conquistadors contracted it from women already living there.

My last question is this Jobo. Have you seen a photograph or an image of the virus which is being vaccinated against in the Swine Flu case ? This is the 5th time I am asking you this question and you have not given any answer.

As for diseases which can be passed without the person being affected by them, NO, not in the case of Smallpox. There ARE certain diseases that can be inherited (blood cancer etc), but these are hereditary diseases. And Smallpox is contracted by contact with a person who is suffering from it. They are completely different cases.

You say you might support mandatory vaccination for Swine Flu. Or are we still not understanding you ?

How about mandatory conversion of the Incas to Roman Catholicism ? That too seems to have happened in the New World.

[jobo]

as usual your trying to start a chain of reason with a false premise

conquistador is a generic name for those who conquered the new world under the control of the Spanish monarchy, not as you believe a name only to the first arivees

the first few hardy soles were soon joined by few hundred then a few thousand others,the after the Latin invasion of south America was one of the largest mass migration ever seen far bigger than the latter migration from north Europe to north America

that aside you still haven;t got the hang of epidemics yet, i really should charge you for this, usual get 400 quid a day for training courses you must be into 1200 quids worth now

its not the number of the conquistadors which decide if its an epidemic or not, its the percentage infected and the rate of new cases which move it from endemic to epidemic

Ive done the rational of how the infection cycle would have been prolonged enough for infected persons to reach land fall, now youve got the hang of epidemic ? > have another read it might make sense now


please go and consult wikipedia remedial section on contagious diseases before posting again

all the evidence is in the history books, again wikipedia is your friend, i notice your not trying to argue that the plains Indian didnt all die of SP where there are contemporary new paper reports ?

im not taking about hereditary diseases, there are a considerable number of contagious diseases were you catch the disease from people who are not displaying any symptoms, (some who never display symptom) including small pox, no Im not providing a list, treat it as your homework

im not being drawn on swine flu as I'm not yet in a position to give an informed opinion, when I am, il tell you, but quite why you feel that me having a picture of it would be a deciding factor im not sure

ignoring the fact that conversion would be difficult as they were mostly all dead,conversion to Catholicism isnt that bad for a peoples who regularly sacrificed young women to the sun gods or was that the aztecs, doent matter they died out as well

[jobo]

hi wat

bored with the remedial lessons in health i was giving you i decided to waste an hour of my time looking at your wild claims on polio, thought id better find your source for the quote you gave about 20 posts ago, which you declined to provided



i then made a starting discovery, which was that, that non fact and indeed most of the tripe your peddling comes from a Dr. Grady A. Deal, Ph.D., D.C., who it transpires is, wait for it a holistic chiropractic, practitioner from Canadian, who doesnt have a clinical medical qualification to her name, i mean not one, a basic course in bad backs, a doctorate in physiology, and suddenly she's an expert in vaccine's

now not beating my own drum, my degree in occupation health makes me a 1000 times more qualified to comment and Im a long way from being an expert on vaccines

so what is ms Grady;s motivation for pontificating on life and death issue ?

well this might be a clue http://www.whale.to/vaccine/deal.html
subtitled

Biblical Laws Against Vaccination

At first i was agog, i' m willing to respect any argument that has a scientific basis, but the entire thing is based on the fact that Deuteronomy says its against god will.

dear god, that book is a about 3 thousand years old, what the hell did the Hebrews know about antibodies


Buts what worse, and Ive wasted two hours of my life, reading that and several other missives, and all and I mean all, quoted facts are wrong, some are very wrong some are gross exaggeration, some just miss represent of truth, and some are down right lies. but there all wrong !

No wonder your having trouble with O level biology, your entire research is based on reading deliberately misleading tripe and then regurgitating it as informed opinion to people who might be gullible enough to believe you

Now Im a God fearing man my self and respectful of others believes, but why hide it ?, why pretend its science when your just peddling religious dogma

tell the community the truth about why you think inocs are wrong, that its against gods law, then if they want to believe you, they do so knowing where you are coming from. then we can talk about children dying in north American not from lack of money but because there parent would sooner pray than call a doctor

If I'm wrong and you not just repeating nonsense from from zealots why are you quoting medical facts from some one with no medic back ground so ever as proof ?

[fastidious_bastard]

get vaccinated and suffer! inject me with cells from animals and humans, mercury too and all the other toxins too! while your at it suffocate me with chemtrails.....wake up or dumb down! the WHO spread aids in Africa through so called vaccinations! all corrupt. they can sod off and leave me alone as i aint het no needles filling me with carcinogens!!! off for a spliff.....................

[wat tyler]

Jobo,

Thank you for sorting out the entire history of the New World and its epidemic history in a few of your most brilliantly researched posts ! You have convinced me the Conquistadors came in sailing ships from Europe when some of the crew were already suffering from Smallpox ! But this wasn't a problem because they all worked in different parts of the universe (oops) ship from their colleagues, so that's OK. Nobody on the ship knew about this. Including themselves. Nobody died, including themselves. That's remarkable in itself, right ? And they all arrived in the New World, after which time it was the women of the New World who infected everybody. Including some of the Conquistadors. And this epidemic wiped out the Incas. We may be certain this illness was Smallpox because Jobo says so. And his great explanation is now being submitted to the Nobel Committee for Medical Excellence for a medal and a cash prize. Several pharmaceutical companies already want to recruit him for public relations in their policy of forced Swine Flu vaccination. And Jobo has not ruled out forced vaccinations.

He is unable to show us a picture or a diagram of the virus associated with 'Swine Flu'. But anybody who rings a certain telephone number complaining of flu-like symptoms can now qualify for some of the Swine Flu accine. Because they have made a vaccine. (We assume they isolated this Swine Flu virus or else they couldn't make such a vaccine, could they ? ).

Aren't you happy the medical future of the world is in such safe hands ?

[jobo]

hi wat

thanks for that retraction Im pleased to see that when presented by over whelming reasoning' and historical facts you man enough to admit your wrong, though im not sure you actual got the hang of the contamination cycles yet, its good to see your at least trying to take on new ideas.

think you may have over done it with the Nobel prise though, it general for new research, Im just quoting what everybody who managed to get o level biology and history know, but thanks anyway

see you decided to ignore my reference to the dogmatic ranting of ms Grady though, I take it you chose not to refute that you get all you knowledge on contagious diseases from a woman with no medical qualification (it would seem knowledge) at all and a fundamental creationist agenda


any was back to the quote from MS Grady re polio and meningitis being the same thing

here it is


"From statistics we note that polio ceased to be a big problem almost immediately but that suddenly aseptic or viral meningitis sometimes called spinal meningitis or multiple sclerosis) were seen in epidemic proportions in approximately the same number that polio was diagnosed in prior years. In fact, a California State Communicable Disease report for 1971 shows that between 1955 and 1966 polio cases dropped from 272 to 50 while viral meningitis rose from 5 to 256 cases. A separate report lists (polio)...now reported as 'meningitis'. So today there wouldn't be any polio even if there were thousands of cases a year because of a few small changes in diagnostic criteria." [u]In short, the government medical Gestapo changed the name of polio to meningitis and other similar names to cover up the fact that the polio vaccine did not stop polio

Problem is, with your lack of formal educational attainment il have to start from basics

Now apart from the fact that ms grady doent understand the phrase epidemic either 25 cases a year in a population of of circa 30 million is hardly an outbreak is it its barely a statistical relevance 0.000000003% incidence rate and could quite easily be rounded down to zero

There a mathematical technique call correlation which identifies when two event have happened simultaneously, but just because two event correlate doesnt mean they are directly related,

for instance in 1953 the queen was crowned on the same day Everest was climbed for the first time, any relationship between these two events NO

in 1968 man united won the European cup and there was student riots in Paris connected NO

just because over a decade the instance one disease fell whilst another increase DOES NOT mean these event are connected, a rise in detection rates for viral meningitis in the Mexican community could easily account for the rise, for as will soon discuss iral meningitis is commonly not diagnosed art all

This misuse of correlations is common in this creationist nonsense to try and suggest cause and effect

however back to polio and meningitis

viral meningitis sometimes called spinal meningitis or multiple sclerosis)
Now that ms Grady thinks meningitis and MS are pseudo names for each other is indicative of her complete lack of medical knowledge, but unsurprisingly viral meningitis and spinal meningitis are completely different diseases as well

viral meningitis is caused by a virus, spinal meningitis is coursed by bacteria

viral meningitis can be coursed by a large number of viruses which infect the area around the spinal column herpes, chicken pox or mumps among many others, its rarely fatal and leaves no musco skeletal after affects but can result in n a small number of cases, people who have suffered from viral meningitis may experience after-effects such as recurring headaches, exhaustion, deafness, tinnitus (ringing in the ears), memory loss, lack of co-ordination or confusion.

spinal meningitis is coursed by bacteria commonly the persons own bacteria, which breaks through the membrane and infects the spinal column its very dangerous and death results if antibiotics are not given post hast,
survivors do not suffer from any form of paralysis and the after effects are commonly Sensorineural hearing loss, epilepsy, learning and behavioural difficulties, as well as decreased intelligence, occur in about 15% of survivors

spinal polio on the other hand is caused by a virus and always results usually within 4 days in near total paralyses, this usually passes and is replaced by physical deformities like bow legs and club foot ect very rarely fatal

So viral meningitis mild and commonly passes with out the victim even knowing they had it( apart from kiddies )

spinal meningitis dead with in a few hours if not treated, no physical deformities in survivors

spinal polio seldom death, total paralysis and physical deformities

So if spinal polio was misdiagnosed as spinal meningitis they would give anti viral instead of antibiotics and death would result

if spinal polio was misdiagnosed as viral meningitis then there would be loads of people with club feet hobbling around, noticed any ?

So conclusion if what ms grady and wat are saying is complete and utter rubbish

[wat tyler]

Thank you Jobo.

We have been fishing for answers from Jobo and he has supplied us with several red herrings.

Jobo, we don't need to argue about the term 'epidemic', do we ? Because our interest is in knowing if Smallpox came to the New World with the Europeans (later called the 'Conquistadors').

You insist it DID. Which is strange because there are no reports of any such outbreaks during the voyages of these European people to the New World. Nor are you able to show Smallpox wiped out the Incas. We do not know, in fact, whether the Incas were wiped out by Influenza, by Smallpox, or by some other means. And Jobo has supplied none. Jobo has already confused Plague with Smallpox in his own arguments (and there are MANY kinds of plague). But, no problem, he wins the Nobel Prize. Because people love fairy stories !

My defence is not only Ms. Grady but MANY doctors, specialists in medicine. Several of which have featured here on this forum. All of them saying mass vaccinations are a total waste of time and money. And all of them warning vaccinations only make the problem worse.

Jobo is not having much success with Smallpox he had decided in the middle of the discussion to leave the Conquistadors and the Incas in favour of a discussion on Polio. And he quotes the fact that the medical statistics show reported cases of Polio dropped drastically at the time when reported cases of 'meningitis' hugely increased.

The history of Polio and the involvement of the pharmaceutical industry in mass vaccinations is already well documented. The simple fact is vaccinations cure NOBODY of anything. And mass vaccinations cure NOBODY of anything. Right ? There are literally thousands of cases where mass vaccinations have caused crippling effects on children and adults. As you surely agree.

For the 7th time I am asking the same Jobo, Nobel Prize nominee, to provide us here with a photograph of the Swine Flu virus. A virus which (Jobo believes) is able to be prevented by a vaccine now already being manufactured globally by the pharmaceutical industry. Surely, surely, he can do this for us. Especially since he believes in vaccination programmes. Not much to ask is it Jobo ?

Jobo agrees a vaccine cannot be made without isolating and analysing the virus itself. So, Jobo, please, please, earn your Nobel Prize. Give us, after all this time, a picture of this Swine Flu virus. It MUST exist or how can they make a Swine Flu Vaccine ?????

Thank you Jobo for your great services to medicine and public health education. We are all glad the health of the planet is safe in your hands and in the hands of your colleagues.

Regards

Wat Tyler

[jobo]

god your confusing

first you retract and say im right, then you change your mind and say Im not, a bit of consistency would be good

anyway i see you chose not to get involved in discussing why you and ms grady are wrong on polio

go on man give me YOUR evidence that they are one and the same no i know you cant coz all youve got is ms grady and her bigotry

why do you think Iim in favour of swine flu vaccine ive told you umpteen time i haven't formed an opinion yet

what do you feel a picture would prove ?

if i gave you a picture of the SW flu virus would that prove im right about SP or polio or just that your wrong about SW flu

this is a very important question, coz here is a picture just for, ive had it sent from a research lab in the US,

090504-swine-flu-picture_big.jpg

090504-swine-flu-picture_big.jpg

[fastidious_bastard]

From out of the womb the vaccine jabs for the newborn are out of proportion for the baby's weight, and even for an adult. Its about time people questioned the medical mafia about the ingredients in vaccines. More harm than good.

Watch this video as it is very informative:-http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/1907355

tons of info on vaccines, its defo worth watching - esp jobo and wat.......