"Illusion" of religion.

[saulw]

Belief and faith are built on hope, muddled focus, and weakness.

Do you have any proof or is that just your opinion?

Inspirational metaphysical teacher Neville Goddard was fond of saying that “Whatever you desire, if you will but believe you already have received it, you will.”

Reminds me of Noel Edmunds! Why haven't I won the lottery then, eh?

We find it hard to believe in anything that we can’t see, hear, or feel.

What about a priori knowledge? I don't usually see, hear or feel bachelors but i know they're unmarried men.

Having faith (believing) in a God is very easy for some people.

And for others, it isn't - so what?

In fact, a great deal of money can be made from religion, and whole nations can blindly worship mythical beings of unlimited power and condemnation.

A great deal of money can be made from lots of things, how is that pertinent to your argument that religion is an illusion?

The fact of the matter is this: religion is based purely on weakness.

The opionion presented as the fact of the matter*.

There is a very simple reason why some people find it easy to believe in a mythical supreme being watching over planet Earth: pain. For example, when we look at many ‘born again’ Christians, we see that prior to ‘finding God’, these people had hit rock bottom in their lives. Perhaps they had previously suffered from some sort of addiction, or perhaps they had suffered a bereavement. In many cases, a person has just been diagnosed with some sort of life-threatening disease such as cancer, and turns to God for comfort.

True, many people find God through pain. But what of those people who don't? Christopher Hitchens springs to mind.

Many are simply lost and alone, unable to cope with the everyday stresses and strains of everything from marriage break-ups to not being able to find a decent job.

If pain is a reason why people turn to religion, then why does everyone not turn to religion in times of need.

Every single person following a religion today may seem different or unique, however all of them share one simple thing in common: every single person that turns to religion for help, guidance, or comfort does so because he or she is measuring a lack of inner purpose.

Or perhaps it's because they believe in God?

The concept of ‘God’ is man-made...

So you can provide me with proof, yes?

I realise that I left out a lot of you're ideas but I couldn't be bothered to go through it at this time.

Happy holidays Bodge!

[JAZZ]

Experiencing your dreams and desires isn’t about faith and belief. It’s about confidence and determination. You don’t lose faith in something if it doesn’t happen, you lose confidence that it will happen. Quite simply, you stop being determined to experience whatever it is that you were focused on.

Belief and faith are built on hope, muddled focus, and weakness. Confidence and determination are built on unquestioned choice, supreme focus, and inner power.

Belief and faith suggest a hope that something will come to pass. Confidence and determination suggest knowledge of a foregone conclusion.

The Bibles answer to how do you get from a vague hope to a place of determination and confident state...

God talks of things that arent as though they already exist. As a starting point it is saying you should too.

JOHN4:35..I tell you lift up your eyes, and SEE how the fields are already white for harvest....Clearly experiencing future events in the present moment creates ENTHUSIASM and leads to you taking ACTION to fulfill plans.

for fuller examples see article viewtopic.php?f=73&t=41781

It says in The Old Testament God came to earth walked with individuals, it says in the new Testament God came to earth as a man..so that anyone can be "Transformed by the renewing of the Mind " with the "Holy Spirits guidance"
..in one of the final books by col2:9 each person is matured to a point of having the full deity flowing within them....1jon4:12..God abides in us....we are to be imitators (note:-not being God). Which is Far from a vague hope and moves away from the notion of "God being out there somewhere".

Some say these writings are several individual persons Spirtitual testimonials of their walk with God through life,and is distinctly different from Religions which are usually man made institutions and rules.


Religion is usually a book that stands between God and a belief you might have decided on when you where very young. "One of Many Religious Book" may either help you or ruin you. The most basic principle in the Bibles case is simple "Treat others as you would like to be treated"....The world and The middle east has gone from fighting with swords, to arms and missiles. The Old Testament has so much bloodshed in it, it would not hardly make it past the censors today. the New Testament is peaceful by comparison. perhaps you might like to email :- live@revelationtv.com and ask the presenter of the Q and A show

schedule on webpage. usually [Thursday at 9pm ] revelationtv.com. if you have questions for the presenter he might read them out.

[JAZZ]

For example, when we look at many ‘born again’ Christians, we see that prior to ‘finding God’, these people had hit rock bottom in their lives. Perhaps they had previously suffered from some sort of addiction, or perhaps they had suffered a bereavement. In many cases, a person has just been diagnosed with some sort of life-threatening disease such as cancer, and turns to God for comfort

Many are simply lost and alone, unable to cope with the everyday stresses and strains of everything from marriage break-ups to not being able to find a decent job.

.



I would agree with you on this point...but are you going to leave the broken in life with no hope at all ?
If you have not had trouble in life then you are fortunate, but more likely you have not lived long enough.
The religious institutions have had some good success at turning round peoples lives who would suffer long periods of suffering unto death. Many have illness, long term pain physically or mentally or are affected by seeing terrible suffering that has its ongoing impact. Here many find with Spirituality the weak can Gird on Strength.

In opposition to this, On a different platform How can a seriously troubled person look at themselves and build on a platform of human weakness which has very often played a large part in bringing them to where they are today ?

[JAZZ]

Having faith (believing) in a God is very easy for some people. In fact, a great deal of money can be made from religion, and whole nations can blindly worship mythical beings of unlimited power and condemnation

The bible starts with man walking with God and the law being brought in to show up peoples
error....At that point standing in the light and casting a shadow.
As you say much of the Church seems to be stuck in that phase as you put it "condemnation".
.
The Church should move on because:- 1john2:2.... //.........also.. "and there is no condemnation
for those in Christ"

New Testament taught us to put light in the darkness, and from his resurrection people where
"to be the light" take on the characteristics and become imitators of God (Christ) by
learning to be overcomers of fear, anxiety, due to lifes threats, by holding on with faith,
building confidence in God and associating with his great wonders and works, plus learning
knowledge and gaining wisdom and walking in Faith..
.
Societys structure does everything it can to keep our minds on LAW, survival and punishment.
.
OR ....for anyone not religious or spiritual, then try building self confidence, Try the
principles suggested in Rudyard Kipling poem IF, and six honest serving men... // Read the
lyrics of Climb by Pink floyd, // for the esoterically interested have a look at the
skillful works of Salvador Dali seen on youtube the icon is a "melted clock" Worn inside
out by Pinkfloyd....

.
Jazz .......................[size=150][/size]

[Etype]

The truth of religion is we have it foisted up on us before we are old enough to have our own belief system. Either by our similarly brainwashed (at a young age) parents or by the state owned school system.

Compulsory teaching of religion fulfils vital functions to government. In that it readies us to believe that someone or something, is a higher power then us and is in control of our lives or destiny and that we need to pay them something be fearful of them and be thankful for their guidance.

Re-enforcing our belief that money has value. and putting money in the collection plate for a new church roof is a good thing. Religion teaches children to believe in and fear god while they are gullible, still believing no adult would lie to them. If religion was paedophilia this would be called grooming!

This of course readies us to swallow the next lie. That the Government, Judges, Police, Army are also higher powers then us and we must bend to their will.

It also divides humanity. With many religions' believing their god is bigger/better then the next mans god and countless wars have been fought over this premise. How can this not be evil ?

When you were at school we were taught about the holy crusades and the Spanish inquisition as though these people were like the Jehovah's witnesses, asking if you had ten minutes to talk about god. It was dumbed down, OK obviously it was a war and people died we understood that much.

What was not portrayed is the sheer terror created when the Christians and later the Catholics forced their beliefs' on people and tortured and killed them in the name of their god. burning peoples feet off in portable ovens till they converted to their faith.

If we had learned our lesson from this over the years that would be a good thing. But the simple truth is we have not.

The human race will simply carry on warring over religion and trying to force their beliefs on others of a different mindset. Is this just? No of course not. Is it control? You bet it is.

And then there is the money aspect. Fact the Vatican bank is filthy rich and all this money comes from poor people who cannot afford to give it.

What do they spend most of it on apart from funding wars/coups, speculating to enrich their own lives, buying/stealing Nazi gold taken from the teeth and possessions of people who died in the holocaust, Protecting paedophile priests, and Oh Yeh! Missionaries to convert and control more people and continue their money making, thought controlling, subjugation of the masses.

Divide and rule, Brain wash, Control and Profit. Its right in your face how can you not notice that?

Oh I forgot! You were brainwashed when you were a little child!

I turned my back on religion aged 11 and have not seen anything in 39 years that would make me change my mind.

Peace and Love

Freeman Simon

[MorningStar]

I am personally thankful that I was brought up in a christian home, with a christian family, and sent to a christian school, and even attended Sunday school.

When I was a little kid I loved dinosaurs, had a bunch of toys and books, drew a load of pictures, the usual. One sunday at church the teacher was telling us the story of genesis (not the band), and I politely raised my hand. 'You forgot the Dinosaurs miss', the woman looked perplexed, then frowned and sternly exclaimed that it was 'rude to interupt'.

So when I got home I got out my copy of the bible, and over the next few days I read it, cover to cover. I was six years old, and even at that tender age my inner bullshit alarm was ringing loud and clear. It only took one read through to make me an atheist for the rest of my life.

Religion is not so much an Illusion, as a willful delusion.

Zeus>Yahweh

[ljtherock]

I am personally thankful that I was brought up in a christian home, with a christian family, and sent to a christian school, and even attended Sunday school.

When I was a little kid I loved dinosaurs, had a bunch of toys and books, drew a load of pictures, the usual. One sunday at church the teacher was telling us the story of genesis (not the band), and I politely raised my hand. 'You forgot the Dinosaurs miss', the woman looked perplexed, then frowned and sternly exclaimed that it was 'rude to interupt'.

So when I got home I got out my copy of the bible, and over the next few days I read it, cover to cover. I was six years old, and even at that tender age my inner bullshit alarm was ringing loud and clear. It only took one read through to make me an atheist for the rest of my life.

Religion is not so much an Illusion, as a willful delusion.

Zeus>Yahweh

Perhaps Morning star, that could you read the DNA code and comprehend it you would turn back...

[Geronimo]

Its quite strange how those on here who have belief in the bible being written by god (via mans hands?) try to separate the bible from religion, which would seem to suggest they are aware most people have cottoned onto what religion was in aid of.
Its a bit like taking the currents out of a spotty dick and saying they have nothing to do with the pudding.

As i stated in another thread with someone who believes if you dont accept his understanding of the bible and the commandments then you are a liar, misquoter, misinterpreter and perhaps even fornicator with the devil. The intolerance shown is of course the main reason why so many people were murdered in the name of the ONE truth.
The bible and commandments were written by man ( can anyone deny that) and to give them authority man announced that god had instructed them in writing them (can anyone deny that?) to date god hasn't confirmed or denied this.

What is known about these words is they have been used to control, manipulate and enslave mankind in one way or another. And as we have no input by god on the matter we can only, in a reasonable and logical fashion, take it that these words were put in place for exactly what they have been used for. The proof is in the pudding! Amen


Tommmmmyyyyyyyyyy!

[ljtherock]

@ Geronimo.


What religion was Moses?


I you were to write a book that you would use to enslave the world populus, would it have any contradictions that go against your plan within it?

[Thomas]

Ok Geronimo.

When you can quote the rule Law from the Bible that you say enslaves people I'll respond. If its not from the Bible there is little point in debating with you and your/their intentional misinterpretation.