Apologies again for both the prior content, which I didn't intend to be offensive (but on re-reading clearly is) and for the delay in responding, as I've had terrible net access for over 2 weeks and lots of revision and exams to be doing. Very sorry for any offence caused and yes, I must've taken it personally without realising. I was kinda 'western stressed' around that time but I do owe you the apology regardless and to Dan for jumping at his comment also. Sorry to the both of you.
I agree thoroughly that a fine line was almost breached in support of such an idea and TPUC does indeed not want shutting down for being perceived a terrorist organisation, which it isn't.
Debate was the proper course which I neglected and yes the whole 'signing the thing in the first place' was as contradictory as it comes.
The signing with TPUC attached was just automatic following posting John's EU reform treaty petition, laying out the dangers of the treaty and calling for a referendum, way before any of the Murdoch press began championing the cause. Which was our hint, that that clearly wasn't the path to be taking, as the shills' don't back arguments they stand to lose from. We managed 10k in supporters on that petition, so I guess they can garner interest but as I said they don't achieve anything, even that road tax one, as it clearly only appealed to the wallet and not the more important ANPR tracking issue it contained. Which the electorate clearly doesn't give a damn about due to perceived threats, all largely bogus. So yes it was a waste of time but sometimes in this age of no real representation, you do hope in exasperation that your voice may be heard by some channel. It was a bad call to use that channel and to add TPUC to it though. Sorry.
I appreciate the threat from illegal guns is real and in the case of childhood shootings or accidents is tragic but I sadly perhaps, still wont be rushing to back amnesties. My figures maybe wrong but even 11k + deaths in the US a year pale in significance to car, alcohol and smoking related deaths. So whilst it may backup the old death peddler's, selling the wares onto the unfortunates, who carry out the cycle and do their dirty work, I still see it as a minority issue in the grander scheme of things.
Sure those 3 products were invented and possibly shouldn't have been, along with guns, and certainly they have other uses unlike guns but we sure aren't banning the first two anytime soon despite their death tolls and I don't support the smoking ban either. Even though it is an insidious product I am weak enough to be currently addicted to.
Have you been in any pubs lately? The atmosphere is just totally different, gone even (though the local pubs probably sucked anyway) and whilst the air is cleaner and the staff are better off (and there were other methods that could've helped with that) its just not the same. A sadly very British trait is forever altered imo. Though granted one thing that always would have been nice to have adopted from EU neighbours, was something other than drink culture to have been our staple diet to begin with.
We relaxed our drink laws and not too much of a problem has resulted and we shan't be banning alcohol, as along with the unwritten rules of not discussing religion and politics in its licensed premises, it is too effective a curtailment of anti establishment thinking. Our greatest and most frequent gathering places of minds in numbers, and it guarantees that as the inhibitions are lowered, ideas are exchanged and plans formulated, they are largely of non political focus and will be forgotten in the morning even if they were. I gather though forget where (too much indulgence perhaps), that it may have been added to militia meeting houses of old, for just such a purpose. The 'Kings Arms' by day, the 'Barmaids Arms' by night, it may aswell be the 'Queens Legs' that's open in the morning! Apologies to Royalists and to those that don't follow.
Cars in current form, even though they should be banned and we will be taxed out of them, aren't going anywhere either. Despite the GW panic and the threatened need for lower emissions, I see not one politician advocating Tesla vehicles or similar. Neither would safer alternatives of travel, or car modifications be accepted by the public, which may at least partly justify the modern working life that never ends, or the systems of surveillance and control that are being put in place.
Cars with GPS programmable route planners that take note of their position relative in the stream of traffic and all vehicles around them and adjust their speed to suit, on streets absent of pedestrians, which carry their laptop wi-fi tuned occupant to the office, whilst they complete their masters overtime requirements en route could be possible. Yet like the smoking issue, it would be a sterilised experience, robbing people of their freedom on the open road and what precious non work time still exists. Though don't forget it was the intention of Bernays' and others to realise such a world. An egg got in the way though, at least according to Curtis. Plus the petrol big boys won, over decent, zero emission electric vehicles of long working, largely serviceless lives. The buck being the incentive in that battle.
Anyway .....I am rambling ineffectively as usual. I am no debater, no intellectual and not good with words, despite what some have said to me. I continue to be humbled and in awe of the knowledge shown by people posting in forums and truth/change movements everywhere, and I pale in significance. In real life I have been regarded by some as knowing way too much uncomfortable information already and they haven't met the people out there, so they really don't know what they're saying. I have some idea but still say the wrong things.
Regardless, I have only wanted to help affect change, in what appear dire situations in many areas and thus far, I haven't achieved much and there is much more to learn. At my current stage of understanding I merely hope that Joe little doesn't have need of packed heat and not have it if push comes to shove. So I respect the petition authors request that they defend themselves on level playing fields.