Petitions of interest

[Reflecter]

Though they may not achieve anything, here are a few worth some attention

Uphold the Bill of Rights
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Bill-of-rights/

Stop police carrying Tasers
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Tasercontrol/

Your home is your castle
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/housedefence/

Defend against Neo CON dismall requests of UN Diplomat Mark Malloch Brown (a thorn in their side)
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/mallochbrown/
more info http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Malloch_Brown

No wars of aggression definitely worth signing
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/No-more-wars/

and finally one asking for the right to bear arms for self defense purposes. The person who raised it elsewhere had this to say

"Only for the strong minded! a regulated armed civilian force for the defence of the community and self defence, it is a sound theory if you understand the US bill of rights and constitution but a far step for a lot of us to grasp. In the US you can apply for a concealed firearms licence rather than a home/hunting licence which is only given to upstanding citizens (some of my US friends have it). Recently there was a crazy shooter in a shopping mall who could have potentially killed a lot of people, luckily there was a few citizens nearby who had their concealed weapons licence they returned fire and the crazed shooter was suppressed until the police arrived and he only killed one citizen when he could have killed many more… Remember in our country only criminals have guns (illegal guns), as well as the police who generally turn up after there has been a crime."

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Armed-citize ... f13.550e53

I would add that a number of shooting incidents in schools and other places have been avoided by armed teachers or civillians. September 11th would have been a very different story if everyone was packing a weapon, even if the terrorists had guns, they would have been outgunned and subdued very quickly. That of course pre-supposses that they were on board, which is based on scant evidence. In addition the average Americans hand luggage should have proved sufficient to beat a box cutter wielding hijacker to death anyway, which is why the story of 4 perfect hijackings is so far fetched to begin with.

p.s Remember to sign your name with TPUC.org afterwards as free advertising.

[Sandie Seward]

I have added my signature to the one about being allowed to carry a pistol.

[Dan Hughes]

Personally I don't think anyone should carry guns, it's like my Dads bigger than yours when you were a kid. If the government needs guns to control and protect us the battle has already been lost. Also 9 times out of 10 the cases of people going mad in US schools are doggy psyops to ban guns. You have just got to look at the US and see the amount of deaths to see the problem it creates. If we use all the money for guns on feeding and educating the people most of the problems would disappear.

In the coming year the world economy is going to collapse and the sheeple are going to get very stressed, we already have a case of a wife poisoning their husband because of her debts. So do you really want people having having guns?

[Heven]

I absolutely agree with Dan
I was quite taken back and concerned that the good name of TPUC might appear on a petition for the right to carry a weapon . May I remind all members of TPUC that we do not associate ourselves with any sort of Violence.
Our fight for our Rights and Liberties is to be done peacefully

It is each and every persons right to have their own personal opinions but PLEASE if you do decide to put your names to petitions that are anything to do with Weapons of any sorts then do so for yourself without the inclusion of TPUC as a whole, even if you think it might be in the interest of advertising
We would not want anyone to get the wrong idea and assume that all our members and the organisation as a whole condone Weapons of any sort.
Personally i absolutely despise GUNS . THEY KILL!!!!; and who has the right to take another's life.
I am an extremely responsible person but i would not wish to carry a gun to protect myself, there are many other ways one can protect themselves without the need of a Gun.

Reflector said about upstanding citizens having concealed weapons licences
Well that worries me as the people who would be deemed as upstanding citizens in this country would probably be the exact people who are helping to destroy our country .
Do you think any Tom, Dick or Harry would be given a licence.
Well there is no telling with those in power , they probably would, that would be one way of eliminating some of the population,and the dirty work gets done for them.
Too many CHILDREN have been killed in London by gunshot in the past year.
Why haven't the Government tried to eliminate at least some of the Guns on the Streets by launching another Gun Amnesty, it would be a start, and if only 100 guns were handed in that would be 100 less on the streets.
GUNS SHOULD BE OUTLAWED !!!!

[Sandie Seward]

Please don't worry, Heven. I signed that petition as an individual person, not as a TPUC Member. The views I hold are entirely my own views. I would not expect others to agree with them, and whilst I do advocate the rights of British people to arm themselves, I do abhor violence, but having said this, we will need to defend ourselves in the future, and not just from the government, either. The enemy is already within our gates. Remember history? The Trojan Horse?

[Reflecter]

Firstly to Heven,

I offer an apology for smearing the good name of TPUC via a Downing Street e-petition. Relax a little though, as it’s ‘a Downing Street e-petition’, which means it will achieve nothing and be totally ignored, particularly by the government. Though therein, I find something of a paradox concerning TPUC.

Secondly a public disclaimer in the name of Rufus Middleton on behalf of TPUC and I, in order to distance TPUC from my own personal support of this petition.

"I do hereby solemnly swear that the viewpoint portrayed upon the e-petition website is solely my own and not a view shared by / representative of / or endorsed by the TPUC organisation, in any way shape or form and is indeed the sole personal view of a solitary member of this organisation that is both technically leaderless and formless in its representation of important issues to the electorate, (or rather) birth and accepted birth subjects and holders of citizenship of England, including all nation states sovereign or otherwise, under which the banner of the United Kingdom does apparently, currently and perhaps prove-ably erroneously apply, under real law. TPUC is an organisation committed to non violent pro active change for the betterment of the lives of all persons, everywhere, regardless of caste, creed, race and political affiliation, faith or absence thereof, or so I currently perhaps understand”.

With that out of the way for all who stray here from the mistaken impression that TPUC endorses gun ownership and violent action as a seemingly inevitable result (a non-sequitur perhaps), I shall move on to attempt to offer my explanation for endorsing such a petition personally and my own opinions of the counter arguments offered thus far. I shall add a disclaimer here that as much as I would love to spend the time to make this a well referenced argument that I simply don’t have, I shall thus as a cop out perhaps (or as a reflection of an inability to argue my side), simply offer the concise version of an endless argument.

Concise version:

Heven,
My supportive view not TPUC’s
I personally don’t want guns or a gun of my own but I support the authors right to ask for one in current climates. Personal view is, he has succumb to fear driven media, working for criminals in power, protected by criminals in uniformed false authority, that combined have created the problems on our streets that lead to gun crime in the first place, aswell as supplying the guns that are used.
Signing petitions in TPUC’s name…founders idea not mine, following success in generating interest in TPUC according to founder, I did so from habit as advertising. Shall desist in future without serious contemplation. I'll be sometime....
Slurs TPUC name….Granted sadly yes I have and for that I am sorry and apologise. TPUC and I are committed to non violence.
Guns Kill….Yes they are solely designed to, but bullets kill or rather people kill, sometimes with guns.
Guns should be banned, eradicated or outlawed….True but utopian BS and not gonna happen anytime soon.
Other self protection? Name some that’s not laughable or that hasn’t failed elsewhere.
Amnesties…Oh please. Anti establishment organisation runs to PTB for protection. Pardon my Olde Germanic.
Child fatalities…..Tragic reality yet other weapons cause more deaths with less fuss from the population, including deaths of children. Main weapon is totally overlooked and yet part of the coming problem for sure.

Dan,
If governments need guns for control the fight is over Really? Who won? We haven't and yes they do use them, so I guess you mean on the moral high ground. Whoopee I feel all spiritual and stuff. American Indians used arrows and bullets, not dream catchers and affirmations which is why a few still exist. Copying them would be pointless though. So yes its down to positive energies and 'Truth-Power', the latest slogan as is being coined from Ghandi's teachings. Whose Salt march wouldn't last 5 seconds nowadays and who was inspired by an anointed one who probably didn't exist. A violent revolution, which of course requires lots of guns against guns, which no one owns or seemingly wants, also wont work. So that leaves us with armed criminals at all levels and the general population up the creek. Now what?
Psy-ops…possibly, but if so you surely shot yourself in the foot. Hegelian dialectic? Sheep n all.
Economy collapse…..possible and I hope people are ready for it and self sufficient. If you are, add one thing to your inventory in your time capsule or bunker…Note to self “buy guns and lots of them”... scratch that "Re-watch all A-Team and MacGyver episodes" as self sufficiency just earned you neighbourhood target number one from criminals and law enforcement agencies combined, oh and luckily unarmed desperate stressed sheeple. Who with hindsight, legal guns and some provisions may not have knocked for a little while longer. Though they always were coveting something of yours weren't they? In reality of course the note to self reads..."How do I protect my comfy base for dire times?"..."knock, knock".."bang!"...""nevermind".

Sandie,

Right to hold a pistol Once constitutional perhaps.
Your choice entirely. Or at least it perhaps should be.


The Long version of this (very long) is of dubious worth posting for now and has been an utter waste of time. Now conserved to avoid potential unintended offence.

Anyone want some DVD's? With a little sharpening around the edges they would make reasonable projectile weapons and under the grill perhaps a nice ashtray.

Oh yeah the real weapon is food. We only wear red noses or buy iPODS from corporate criminal hippies over that one and then only once a year despite upto 40,000 deaths a day, mostly childrens.

[Reflecter]

I forgot to add that Jeremy Clarkson is being primed for PM in a new e-petition here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk:80/dna/actionnetwork/A30889579

[Heven]

Reflector
I feel that you have assumed that i have mounted an attack on you personally , I have to tell you that you have taken my comment to heart and that was not my intention.
My comment was written as a precaution to all who write comments.
We do need to speak the Truth and have freedom of expression and the MAGNA CARTA does state that we should have the right to bear arms of this I am aware.
We have to be cautious though , as a collective of people we intend to be taken seriously and not assumed to be a conspiracy theory and due to the Government imposing all these Ludicrous Acts on us that can be proven to be void in English Law , do we really want to exhaust our energies in a court of Law when we have been accused of being Terrorists which is something we are not and never will be.
Its a fine line.
All i was SIMPLY requesting was for everyone to think, we have to be smart and one step ahead of the enemy .
However you stated its a Government e- petition which will achieve nothing and be totally ignored by the Government.
Ok so your saying no one will see TPUC on it.
But i must just say WHY SIGN THE PETITION in the first place if its a complete waste of time???
You have made some very valid points in your reply to my post and i appreciate the time and effort you have put in to writing it after all this is what the forum was set up for DEBATE!!!

[Reflecter]

Heven,

Apologies again for both the prior content, which I didn't intend to be offensive (but on re-reading clearly is) and for the delay in responding, as I've had terrible net access for over 2 weeks and lots of revision and exams to be doing. Very sorry for any offence caused and yes, I must've taken it personally without realising. I was kinda 'western stressed' around that time but I do owe you the apology regardless and to Dan for jumping at his comment also. Sorry to the both of you.

I agree thoroughly that a fine line was almost breached in support of such an idea and TPUC does indeed not want shutting down for being perceived a terrorist organisation, which it isn't.

Debate was the proper course which I neglected and yes the whole 'signing the thing in the first place' was as contradictory as it comes.

The signing with TPUC attached was just automatic following posting John's EU reform treaty petition, laying out the dangers of the treaty and calling for a referendum, way before any of the Murdoch press began championing the cause. Which was our hint, that that clearly wasn't the path to be taking, as the shills' don't back arguments they stand to lose from. We managed 10k in supporters on that petition, so I guess they can garner interest but as I said they don't achieve anything, even that road tax one, as it clearly only appealed to the wallet and not the more important ANPR tracking issue it contained. Which the electorate clearly doesn't give a damn about due to perceived threats, all largely bogus. So yes it was a waste of time but sometimes in this age of no real representation, you do hope in exasperation that your voice may be heard by some channel. It was a bad call to use that channel and to add TPUC to it though. Sorry.

I appreciate the threat from illegal guns is real and in the case of childhood shootings or accidents is tragic but I sadly perhaps, still wont be rushing to back amnesties. My figures maybe wrong but even 11k + deaths in the US a year pale in significance to car, alcohol and smoking related deaths. So whilst it may backup the old death peddler's, selling the wares onto the unfortunates, who carry out the cycle and do their dirty work, I still see it as a minority issue in the grander scheme of things.

Sure those 3 products were invented and possibly shouldn't have been, along with guns, and certainly they have other uses unlike guns but we sure aren't banning the first two anytime soon despite their death tolls and I don't support the smoking ban either. Even though it is an insidious product I am weak enough to be currently addicted to.

Have you been in any pubs lately? The atmosphere is just totally different, gone even (though the local pubs probably sucked anyway) and whilst the air is cleaner and the staff are better off (and there were other methods that could've helped with that) its just not the same. A sadly very British trait is forever altered imo. Though granted one thing that always would have been nice to have adopted from EU neighbours, was something other than drink culture to have been our staple diet to begin with.

We relaxed our drink laws and not too much of a problem has resulted and we shan't be banning alcohol, as along with the unwritten rules of not discussing religion and politics in its licensed premises, it is too effective a curtailment of anti establishment thinking. Our greatest and most frequent gathering places of minds in numbers, and it guarantees that as the inhibitions are lowered, ideas are exchanged and plans formulated, they are largely of non political focus and will be forgotten in the morning even if they were. I gather though forget where (too much indulgence perhaps), that it may have been added to militia meeting houses of old, for just such a purpose. The 'Kings Arms' by day, the 'Barmaids Arms' by night, it may aswell be the 'Queens Legs' that's open in the morning! Apologies to Royalists and to those that don't follow.

Cars in current form, even though they should be banned and we will be taxed out of them, aren't going anywhere either. Despite the GW panic and the threatened need for lower emissions, I see not one politician advocating Tesla vehicles or similar. Neither would safer alternatives of travel, or car modifications be accepted by the public, which may at least partly justify the modern working life that never ends, or the systems of surveillance and control that are being put in place.

Cars with GPS programmable route planners that take note of their position relative in the stream of traffic and all vehicles around them and adjust their speed to suit, on streets absent of pedestrians, which carry their laptop wi-fi tuned occupant to the office, whilst they complete their masters overtime requirements en route could be possible. Yet like the smoking issue, it would be a sterilised experience, robbing people of their freedom on the open road and what precious non work time still exists. Though don't forget it was the intention of Bernays' and others to realise such a world. An egg got in the way though, at least according to Curtis. Plus the petrol big boys won, over decent, zero emission electric vehicles of long working, largely serviceless lives. The buck being the incentive in that battle.

Anyway .....I am rambling ineffectively as usual. I am no debater, no intellectual and not good with words, despite what some have said to me. I continue to be humbled and in awe of the knowledge shown by people posting in forums and truth/change movements everywhere, and I pale in significance. In real life I have been regarded by some as knowing way too much uncomfortable information already and they haven't met the people out there, so they really don't know what they're saying. I have some idea but still say the wrong things.

Regardless, I have only wanted to help affect change, in what appear dire situations in many areas and thus far, I haven't achieved much and there is much more to learn. At my current stage of understanding I merely hope that Joe little doesn't have need of packed heat and not have it if push comes to shove. So I respect the petition authors request that they defend themselves on level playing fields.

Peace

[Sandie Seward]

It is very sad indeed that it has come the time that people would even consider having the right to arm themselves in our Country. I also abhor violence, but, if you are walking along totally minding your own buisness and suddenly you are surrounded by a knife-wielding mob of hoodies, then, what are you supposed to do? Run? Say
"Sorry"?
I don't think so, somehow.

I wasn't intending, however, that we arm ourselves whilst out shopping, just that we should be allowed to legally own a firearm if it is kept in our homes for defence purposes.